Writing with Chronic Illness | Sarah Colliver

In this episode we are joined by author Sarah Colliver, who shares her experience of writing with chronic illness. She talks about her health journey, and the realities of writing while balancing work and health.

This episode is dedicated to the memory of Pat Raymond.

Please note this Podcast is provided for general information only, it does not constitute as medical or professional advice. The views expressed by guests on this Podcast are their own, their inclusion in this Podcast is not an endorsement.

Intro and outro audio by podcast.co.

[Image description: The image has a light cream background with a large photo on the left of Sarah Colliver, smiling at the camera, she has shoulder-length blonde hair, and round glasses. To the right, bold black text reads “Writing with Chronic Illness,” with her name, “Sarah Colliver,” written below in soft teal. Under the text is a teal play button and a horizontal soundwave graphic. At the bottom, a circular logo shows a sky-and-trees scene with the words “Alive with Chronic Illness” around the edge.]

Transcript

Elizabeth 

Hi, and welcome to Alive with Chronic Illness, a podcast dedicated to exploring what it's like to live with and not in spite of chronic illness. In today's episode, I'm joined by Sarah Colliver to talk about writing with chronic illness. Thank you so much for joining me today, Sarah. Would you like to get started by just telling us a little bit about yourself and your health journey? 

Sarah 

Certainly, thanks for having me on. It's very exciting to be on a podcast. I've never been on one before. So thank you very much for inviting me. I'm Sarah Colliver. I'm a writer from the Forest of Dean. My writing began really just for me as a kind of a form of therapy, I guess. When I look back particularly over lots of scribbles that I've done, particularly with having a gap of sort of 10 years, I can definitely see it's been a therapy for me. But so I kind of shared it with a few people, some of my workings and writings, and they sort of suggested putting out this for a wider audience, which I did bravely because it's quite a scary thing to do. And it's kind of grown from there, really. It's, you know, getting support from people and people asking when you're doing the next piece of writing kind of spurs me on to think, oh, well, maybe I will release something new, or because there are times when I think, no, I'm not doing any more. But yeah, that's kind of how it began. 

Elizabeth 

Yeah, so that's quite exciting then. So that kind of nerves at the beginning of putting it out there and now being at a stage where you've actually got people messaging you and sort of saying, oh, I'm excited to read more of your work. That's brilliant. 

Sarah 

Absolutely. And it is terrifying. Even now, I'm sort of five books in now. And even now when I release a book, I am terrified. And it's quite an ordeal. It's quite a lonely thing being a writer and author because particularly as an independent author, you haven't got a team behind you, haven't got people sort of reading everything you're doing and discussing it and coming up with ideas. It's kind of like a one-man band. So you get to the point where you've maybe got a friend to edit it and then you think, is this actually any good? Is anybody going to like it? Are they going to find plot holes? You know, there's all of these different anxieties that come up with it. So yeah, it's still terrifying. I don't think it'll ever not be terrifying. I think every time you share anything with the world, it's kind of bearing your soul to the world to sort of ask for their opinion, if you like. And that's always a scary thing to do. 

Elizabeth 

Yeah, definitely a very vulnerable thing, particularly because you spend so much time writing and putting, like you said, bearing your soul in this work and then putting it out there and just sort of waiting to see how people respond. 

Sarah 

Absolutely, yeah. So I don't think that'll ever not be terrifying. But it's, you know, for now it's something I will continue to share as long as I seem to have an audience, which seems to be growing at the moment. So touch with that's a good thing. 

Elizabeth 

Yeah, that's brilliant. That's really good. So how have you found that was your health journey in writing? Was there a link there or did you, did your symptoms start after you'd already started writing? 

Sarah 

Yeah, that's a really tricky one to unpick because I, you know, I try and I kind of try and reflect over when my health declined really. And I'm not, I'm not really sure when it began. And as probably lots of people can, understand there's a lot of kind of medical gaslighting that goes on with chronic health problems. And so for a long time, I was kind of told there's nothing wrong with me, might be depression, that kind of thing. So I'm not, I can't really have a definitive point as to when I feel that I kind of was well, if that makes sense. It's been a very sort of long process, so I can't really untwine the two. I definitely, I definitely started writing, I would think, for therapy. Like I said, I tend to reach in the darker times, I tend to reach for poetry. And actually, I dug out a book that I'd written lots of bits in this morning ahead of us chatting. And I could see a lot of my poetry were in very dark times when perhaps I felt very alone and vulnerable and have reached for a pen and paper. And they're kind of bits I'd even forgotten I'd written, to be honest. And I come across them and I'm quite taken back by what I've written down. And they're probably not even things that I necessarily have shared with the world. They're probably more for me. But I think the fiction writing for me, part of my illness with ME, as a young person and as a child, actually, I was a prolific reader. I read from a very young age. I devoured books. I loved reading. Since I definitely have had sort of worse ME, I would guess. I'm definitely not severe, but my symptoms are more debilitating. Reading has been one of my things that has gone out the window, really. I just struggle. the actual process of reading I struggle with, which I know some people will find really odd because I write books, but it's a different process. And so I do really struggle to read. So That's been a really sad thing for me. And what happened was I started writing instead of the reading, I think it became like a different way of escaping. You escape into a book, whereas I'm escaping by writing a book. It probably sounds a bit strange, but, and what has actually happened, which is really interesting, is that my books have all, they all end up, this isn't something I planned, they all end up a similar length, they're much shorter than normal books that are out there, they're kind of around the 40,000 words. And I think that's happened because of my illness. I think that's happened because naturally, I don't feel like if I've told the story, I should add more in. I think it's more accessible to people who struggle maybe to get through a whole book. It's not just people with chronic health issues, but like I've had lots of feedback from busy mums or lapsed readers that my books have kind of gently brought them back into... into the love of reading. And I've also kept with a really good sized font. They're kind of reader friendly books because again, lots of people commented, you know, for all different reasons that they struggle with the smaller font. It's like a barrier to the enjoyment of the book. So I've kind of kept with that. So all five of my books you'll find the same length. the very immersive straight A, but also the fonts good. So that I feel has definitely come from my own struggles with my health, which is quite interesting because I think that it's quite a different take on, you know, producing some fiction. 

Elizabeth 

Yeah, absolutely. And what you've done there is you've created books that are not only accessible for you to write, but actually accessible for people to read. And I can definitely resonate with finding reading really difficult. Even audiobooks, I sometimes find it really hard to follow, especially if it's quite a long book because I forget what the plot is. And I don't know what's going on. So actually having ones that are really easy to kind of get, you said they're immersive straight away, but then also it's not too long. So even if you have got a bad brain fog day, you can pick up what's going on. I think that's really important. And that's, yeah, that is like you said there, it's a different take on that journey and how you've your experience has shaped the way that you write. And I think probably, like you said, people find that a lot more accessible. And it's probably part of the reason it's so successful, because people can, more people can access it and they can resonate with why you wrote in the way you do. 

Sarah 

Yeah, I think so. And it was really interesting. I was actually at an event on Saturday and somebody with early dementia actually was speaking to me and that was really interesting. And she said she absolutely loves books, but she was struggling to hold books because of another condition she had. So she was using Kindle. So the whole conversation came about because she obviously didn't want to buy my books, but she wanted to read them. And I said, that's fine. You can read them on Kindle. And she was explaining how she finds it really difficult to read now because of her memory and her struggles with how she thinks and stuff. So shorter books, you know, easier, immersive books, ones you can pick up and put down, not too complicated or too many characters, are also really important for her. And I thought, this really is actually a thing, you know? I'd never thought of that before. I'd always thought I was doing something wrong by writing shorter books or sticking to my guns with my own kind of, you know, process of what I'm doing. Because obviously, the majority of people are writing these very long books and they're very complicated. And I kind of thought, no, I'm going to stick to my guns with it. I'm going to write how I want to write, how it would suit me. And I'm actually really pleased I did do that because as I said, it's, you know, there's a lot of people out there who it's reaching that perhaps it wouldn't have otherwise. And that's a really positive thing for me. 

Elizabeth 

And I think it is good to stick to your gut instinct on things and follow what feels right for you as well. And has that helped with your journey of continuing to write? So you've written four books now that have been published, five, sorry, five books have been published, haven't you? So has that made it more accessible for you to get those books finished? 

Sarah 

Definitely, It's always, obviously, it's a lot of hard work writing a book. But as I said, it's a definite escape for me. And actually, I get quite sad when I finish writing my books because I've kind of grown a relationship with them. And it's saved me from dark times, you know, with chronic health issues, you go to dark places, you know, you have a lot more, well, personally, and as I can only go from my own personal experience, you know, you worry about maybe small health things you wouldn't normally worry about because you're, you You feel so dreadful kind of all the time, every day. You kind of have like a level of dreadfulness. That's how I describe it. And some days it's a bit less dreadful and other days it's worse dreadful, but it's kind of there. It's like your baseline. So if I can, if I can. jot down some words, even on my bad days, even if it's like 2 words or three words, I feel like I'm contributing to like something really positive. And that's a really important thing to have, because it's kind of then taking your mind temporarily off the darkness, if that makes sense. 

Elizabeth 

Yeah, that makes sense actually. And that's part of the reason why I started this podcast actually, because I wanted something that I could put my energy and focus onto in on my bad days. Because if I feel like I've done something like you said there, like just a few words, or you've just done a little bit to contribute to something, it's still part of going towards that goal. And I think it gives you that sense of achievement. But it's something that's not unattainable. you that the achievement, like it's a success if you write a whole page, but it's also a success if you write 2 words, or you even think, oh, I like to put this scene, even if you don't write down the scene, you think, oh, this is something I want to write. There's so many different ways that can be a success and so many different ways you can contribute to that goal. 

Sarah 

Absolutely. And it's just really important when you do feel alone with your chronic health or you feel misunderstood or I think it's really important to try and find your thing, whatever that thing is. There's lots of things out there. It could be, for me, it was writing and whatever shape or format is, whether it's working towards a book I've got or just getting my feelings out in a poem that will never see the light of day, that kind of helps me because the other thing I find very difficult the chronic health side of things is that I don't know if you are judged, but I feel judged sometimes. So like people don't realize it's quite damaging if, for example, you store up your energy to do a book fair on the Saturday, which absolutely floors you. So you do it, you enjoy it, it's nerve wracking, but you enjoy it, but then you're floored for kind of however many days afterwards. But, unhelpful comments are, well, no wonder you're tired. And it's like, well, I'm tired because I've got a health issue. It's not because I've made myself ill by doing a book fair. And they may not mean that, but it feels like that sometimes. And it's quite, so it's quite important to not feel like you can't do things that are good for you mentally. even though you're going to pay a price for it, perhaps physically, we have to do things that are going to help us. And, even if that's not understood by other people. And so words are very powerful. So people use words to us all the time that they perhaps don't realise how that affects us. So what I'm trying to do, I'm trying to use words, in a different way, if that makes sense. Words are with us all, aren't they? They're very, very powerful things. And it's about kind of using those wisely, I guess. 

Elizabeth 

Yeah, I think absolutely. And sometimes, like you said, we'll have something where we've got a big day or an event that's really important to us come up and then we'll go and do it and then might have a crash or flare up. And people have said that to me, like, why do you do it? Because The reason I do it is because it's important to me. And sometimes what it is worth the payoff in symptoms. But also, I guess there's an element of if I didn't have these chronic illnesses, I could maybe do that. And I could have without any kind of sort of repercussions, I would just be able to do it. I wouldn't have to think about it or plan as much in advance or recover from it because it would just be part of my week. And I think that's something that maybe non-disabled people don't always think about is how much we have to plan every kind of element of things in order to be able to do things. So although you might be able to see it on social media and think, oh, this person went to this event, but actually that's just one part of it. It's the week preparing for the event and the week recovering from the event. 

Sarah 

Absolutely. And that's why I think. I used to when I when I was first, I suppose, when I first got my diagnosis, let's say, which obviously is a big thing to get because you kind of think, right, okay, finally I've got this diagnosis. Maybe I could now try and work towards finding a better way to live, if that makes sense. And I kind of immersed myself in trying to find understanding from a community. And it kind of then became that that's all I was about. I just needed that for a while. And then slowly I kind of thought, well, I can't just be that. That's really nice to know that people understand me and it's really good that there are people there to support, but I have to find something else. Otherwise, all I'm thinking about is this. I'm a whole person. I think one of the taglines on one of my writing pages is ME is just part of my story. It's not who I am. It just defines a lot of my choices. It's like you said, you basically get diagnosed and then it's like, here are the scales, what are the scales for? They're now because to weigh up every single thing that you're going to do. Is it worth the pain? Can you fit two in a week? How much are you going to suffer? You basically constantly about every little thing. I think you're just using the scales all the time. It's the most bizarre, bizarre thing. And so now what I'm trying to do, I'm trying to be more honest about my my Emmy on my writing social medias, not to bombard people with it, because as I said, Emmy is just part of my story. But just to be real, because I don't want it to just look like I can cope and I can do this and I can do that. I can't. And it takes, you know, like I always say, it's invisible because perhaps you don't see me when I'm at my worst, not because it's not visible. It is there, it's visible to see, but perhaps, you know, when I'm at my worst, I'm in my bed, you know, I'm in my house, my husband's doing everything for me. So I'm trying to make it more visible and more kind of real now, just so that perhaps people can see, well, yeah, you have chronic illness, but you can still achieve, you can still do things. And actually, the funny thing about it is I used to think, oh my goodness, it'd be great to be, traditionally published. But realistically, that wouldn't be great for me because I could not cope with the pressure. I couldn't cope with the expectations, with the deadlines. At the moment, as an independent author, if I don't release a book in a year, nobody's going to tell me off for that. I haven't got any contracts. You know, I don't ever have to release a book again. Or I could do one if I have a good run of health, I could do one sooner. But there's no restrictions. So actually, independent, Being an independent author is a bit of a gift for me, really. 

Elizabeth 

Yeah, it takes that pressure off that you would get with maybe traditional publishing to have those deadlines and you can publish as much or as little as you want as well. 

Sarah 

Absolutely. It just gives me a bit of control where I perhaps would fail if I was traditionally published. I mean, I'm not saying that is the same for everybody, but me personally, I couldn't... I couldn't write to deadlines. It just, it wouldn't work for me. I just couldn't do that. So yeah, this works perfectly for my situation really. 

Elizabeth 

So what is your writing process like? Do you have a process you like to follow when you think of the idea for the book? And I know you said you like to try and work on it a little bit most days that you can. 

Sarah 

Yeah, so basically when I'm when I'm writing a book, I try and... I try and fit a little bit in daily, but again, I put myself under no pressure at all. I always kind of just go with my body, if you like. I know that sounds strange, but I kind of, I don't force it ever. I kind of, I'm jotting down ideas all the time, like I could be sitting there and something will pop into my head and I know I won't remember it. So I might jot down a really couple of lines that might be an idea for a future story. But when I'm working on a story, usually I come up with a character and a basic scenario, and then I kind of write the name, or even just the start of the name, and all of this stuff around that person, and then sort of try and build a story, and then start the writing process, which I tend to know if I'm on, last year I tried to write three books, and They just didn't work for me. And I kind of just think, well, if you have to really force it, perhaps it's not right. And I'm glad because then beginning of the year, I wrote my fifth book and I wrote that really quickly. And that's because, you know, if you read a good book, you can't put it down. It felt like that, but writing the story, which was just lovely. So it didn't feel difficult at all to write Kitty Taylor. It was just a lovely book to write. So that was really nice. 

Elizabeth 

So do you often find that you have then ideas and you start writing and then you maybe you sort of leave that for another time or scrap different ideas and you sort of play around with different plots? 

Sarah 

I wouldn't say I, so for example, like the two books I started last year, I just, I kind of persevered and persevered and thought, right, I'm not enjoying this. I can't see where it's going to go. So I'm just going to shelve it. I haven't gone back to either of them. And then I had this idea for Kitty Taylor, and it just, it was like turning on a tap. It just, the story just evolved. And often I find that if I know if I'm onto a good thing, because the characters kind of drive some of the twists and turns. You know, there's one towards the end of Kitty Taylor, and I kind of didn't plan that, but it was just, you know, Kitty kind of drove that ending. And so, yeah, so it's a mixture of planning and allowing the characters to be actual people, because as people, life doesn't always go as planned. And, as we evolve as people, situations change and things change. So I like to have a little bit of freedom with regards to, the characters' pathways in books. 

Elizabeth 

Yeah, I like that. And do you sometimes find that the pathway actually surprises you a little bit as well? 

Sarah 

Yeah, and I love that. I always have a little dance with joy when a little twist happens and I think, yes, I couldn't have even imagined the twist. And you know, it's come because of how the story's gone. So those are my favourite kinds. So I think if I'm surprised, and hopefully the reader's definitely going to be surprised. 

Elizabeth 

Yeah, absolutely. But no, that sounds like a really nice process. And then when you get into the flow of it, you find that you write things quite quickly, which is, I guess, is a good thing because it gets the idea out there and you get all your thoughts down on paper. 

Sarah 

Yeah. And again, when I say it will happen quickly, but again, there's no pressure. So if I'm in a particularly bad place or, you know, you, well, like when you can't do things, that's okay as well, because, you know, it'll just, I call it percolating, it'll percolate away. And and then I'll go back to it and just pick up where I left off. And that, again, as I said, is the beauty of being an independent author. There's no deadlines. You know, the only person I'm accountable to is myself. So, and that's good. 

Elizabeth 

Yeah, so when you decided that you were going to publish independently, what was your first step? Did you do some research or did you already know a little bit about it? 

Sarah 

Well, the strange thing was back in 2009, I lost my mum very suddenly and she'd moved up here with us. And I, again, funnily enough, it was a devastating time for me. And I picked up the laptop and just splurged all my feelings down into this story. It was a fictional story, but when I look back, there was a lot of me in this story. And it was, like, I cringe now if I look at it. I can't look at it now because it was a real learning curve. And I shared it with a few people and they were like, oh, we need to share this with more people. And it was, I kind of, I'm not sure when Kindle started, but it was the first time I was aware of Kindle, and that you could upload your stories to it, so I did do that, and I, and I got... lots of readers and lots of people that liked it, strangely. And that was my first attempt at sharing my stories with the world back then. But they're not available now because I've even tried to go back and make them better, but they just need too much work. It's too difficult. And actually, to be honest, I look back and I think it was definitely, a massive thing of therapy for me. Losing my mum, it was getting all of those feelings out in that story. So I probably really wouldn't want to share it again now. It's kind of done its thing. It's taught me how to self-publish and how to write and I've learned a lot from it, but I kind of leave it back there now. 

Elizabeth 

Yeah, it served its purpose. 

Sarah 

Yeah, definitely. And it's funny because obviously at the time I was close too close to it to see how similar it was to what I had gone through. But now I look back and I think perhaps it maybe should have stayed just for me. But I've learnt from it and I learnt about self-publishing. So that's what I've got from that. 

Elizabeth 

Yeah, and that's a huge thing because it's not like, I only know a very little bit about self-publishing because I know a few people who do it, but there's so much you have to do like in terms of just thinking about what you want the cover to look like and you're responsible for all of the marketing, those things that maybe you would potentially have a little bit more support of a traditional publisher. You kind of have to do it to do it all. 

Sarah 

The social media side and the self-published, sorry, I can't speak today, self-publicising part, I find very difficult. I've had to really build on that over the years. I could sell you, I could sell anybody, but selling myself, I find cringy. So I've had to really be brave and kind of, and just do that. But it's relentless, you know, and that's actually, I think that's more difficult and more exhausting than actually writing the books. And as you said, you have to format the books, you have to design all the cuts, I've done all the covers, everything. The only thing I don't do is print them. So it is a huge, huge thing to undertake. And again, I think it's just by learning and just doing it, it's one of those things you kind of have to do it to learn how to do it, if that makes sense. I've made loads of mistakes along the way and I'm probably on about my fifth covers now, which I'm now finally happy with. But I'm not a designer. I don't know how to design book covers. So it's taken a long time to get to where I wanted to get to. But yeah, lots, lots of lots of hard work. But again, thank goodness, I've just got myself to hold accountable. Nobody's breathing down my neck because that would be very stressful. 

Elizabeth 

Yeah, it gives you like a lot of freedom. And I think in a lot of ways, as like a career, being a self-published author is quite accessible. 

Sarah 

Yeah, I mean, the actual process of doing it is accessible. I work part time in the NHS. I work 13 hours a week. That's all I can manage, unfortunately. Sometimes, sometimes I don't manage that. But so I definitely don't make enough money that I could use it as a career, you can make money from it. And I do cover my costs now, which I never used to. But I'd certainly have to be seen more on Amazon. Amazon's like a needle in a haystack. So Yeah, it's very, very difficult to get seen on there and you need to be seen in order for people to know and think about you. So I'm doing quite well with getting a name locally, which has taken a long time, but just finally now I seem to be getting more known locally, but it's very, very difficult to get seen at all, very difficult. 

Elizabeth 

So those elements, particularly, I suppose, the amount of energy it would take to run social media for yourself as well and have to think about all the ideas make it a bit more tricky. 

Sarah 

Yeah. So what I tend to do is like I use Canva and things like that. And I tend to, when I'm not, when I'm feeling a bit better, I'll make a few. So that I've got kind of like a stock of some posts so that when I'm not feeling so great, I've got one I can just put put out there for consistency. And I tend to, when I'm not feeling too bad, I'll do some kind of face-to-face videos with people because they seem to like engaging that way. But it all just depends. It's just, it's almost sort of just keeping like a consistency, no matter, you know, my health may be going up and down and wiggling all around, but just trying to keep a bit of consistency with regards to posting and social media and things. 

Elizabeth 

Do you have a social media schedule? Do you try and post a couple of times a week? 

Sarah 

No, I try and post daily if I can. So like this morning, I've just, I've done nothing this morning. So I was preparing for our chat now, but I did, while I was just sort of having a little rest, I did create a few posts just to bank for future on Canva. So I've got a few to come and I just try and get a bit ahead of myself when I'm able so that when I'm not able, it's not such a problem. But again, that's only something I've kind of thought of and learned recently. It's just learning all the time, really, and just trying to find ways to make it easier. 

Elizabeth 

I think it can be tricky with Instagram and the way the algorithm works. Like you're saying, you post daily. Presumably, is that because you've found that seems to be the amount that works. 

Sarah 

I haven't found what works yet. I just keep trying. I'm just a trier. I can't seem to work out any algorithms at all. I'm sure there probably are some if people have got headspace to kind of work it out. But I just think that the more I can post, the more people will see. And it's funny, I've only just recently learned that actually, you know, even if it's a post that hasn't gotten much engagement, I've had them people in person say, oh, I saw that post, but they hadn't engaged with it. So I try not to despair when there's no interaction because I think we'll That doesn't mean people haven't seen it. Just they haven't interacted. And just hope for the best, really. Yeah. Just trying to be a bit more consistent with it. I'm trying to take it seriously because what I would love is my end goal, which I try and manifest with the universe, is that I can give up my 13 hours. If I could just earn enough to do that by writing, then that would be fantastic because I think that would be really beneficial for my health. because that 13 hours that I, spend getting ready for work, going to work, being at work, I could be using perhaps in having a walk or something that might be more healthy for me. So that would be that would be my angle. And that's why I kind of keep thinking I will not give up, I will not give up, I will keep going. And there's a there's a gentleman called Mark Ormerod. He's one of my really inspirational people. He's an ex-Royal Marine who lost three limbs in one in the war. And he nothing stops him doing anything. He's sort of swum the channel. He's broken world records. He just does everything with one one arm. He has one arm. And His motto is the people that don't make it are the ones that give up. You know, if you if you keep going, you will make it. And that's what in my dark times when I think, I'll just stop writing. I just think of what he said, you know, keep going. You can't you can't win if you give up. But if you keep going, you know, you're more likely to get to your own goal. So, yeah, I find him really, really inspirational. 

Elizabeth 

Yeah, I think that is a powerful reminder, isn't it? Just keep going. Even if things are really difficult right now, you need to keep going so you can get to the time when things are going to be easier. 

Sarah 

Yeah, and also remembering that keeping going will look different on different days. So sometimes keeping going will be getting in the shower and laying on the sofa and getting through the day. And other times it'll be going to work and having a chat and a coffee and, keeping going. It doesn't look like anything. It's just keeping going. It's whatever it is on that specific day. If you, woke up and you made it through to the evening, you went to sleep again, then you've kept going. 

Elizabeth 

Yeah, absolutely. And it's like redefining that as well. And ideas of productivity and the pressure that perhaps we get put on us as a society puts pressure on pretty much everyone to be endlessly productive and that success has to look a very specific way. So actually redefining that and it being more than enough if all we've done is got through the whole day, that's more than enough. But it's also more than enough if you've got through, say, a day at work. It's that placing the same value on your better days and your worst days so that you always see your own value in yourself. Your condition might change and your symptoms might change and fluctuate, but the worst that you have doesn't. 

Sarah 

Absolutely. And as you said, there is so much pressure that society put on you for success to look a certain way or for productivity to look a certain way or everything is supposed to look a certain way. And it's just readjusting your own ideas of what that is. I used to really berate myself, well, you're not traditionally published. And if people said, this is my friend, she's an author, I'd say, well, I'm not really an author. And then I kind of rethought that and thought, well, who says I'm not an author? I've written books and I've put them out there. So I'm definitely an author. I may not be a traditionally published author, but does that make me any less worthy? And it's the same with everything. It's adjusting our perspective and it's thinking, well, just because somebody out there has said this is the right thing, this is how it should be. that doesn't make that right. It just means that that's maybe the voice that's been louder for longer. So, you know, we just need to make sure we are, in a way, standing up for ourselves and saying, well, actually, this is my best. In fact, I saw it was like a thing on Instagram or something the other day, and it said, if on a day when you give 40%, that's the best you can do, that's your 100%. And again, it's about perspective, isn't it? You know? But perspective isn't always easy when you have a chronic illness, because when you're in the depths of despair with it, it's very difficult. That's when you have to grasp the perspective, but it's not always easy to do so, which then is when I would probably reach for my pen and paper and jot down a load of words. 

Elizabeth 

Yeah, really use it as an outlet, I think. I quite like writing as well. I think it can be really fringing and you can experience whatever you're having in the moment and you can just get it down on a piece of paper and make something beautiful of it. 

Sarah 

Yeah, and I and I've when I've said to people before, listen, you know, if your if your mind is absolutely full, it's like saturated with thoughts and things that you don't know how to process. Just get a pen and paper. It doesn't have to make sense. You don't have to sit there and write an essay. You know, it's just getting words down. And sometimes once you start, it's like a tap. You turn it on and before you know it, you've just written a load of stuff down that probably makes no sense to anybody else. But it's just a way of getting it out of your brain. And It's like they used to say, a problem shared is a problem hard. It's a bit the same with if you can get it down on paper. If there's no one you can actually talk to, write it down, you know, because I do think it helps clear your mind a little bit more. It helps kind of reduce the amount of noise that's going on in your head, because that can be just all consuming sometimes. I remember I had some therapy a few years ago and I remember saying to her, I think very visually, but I remember explaining to her that my brain felt like this big tangle of kind of string, if you like, and I didn't know where the end was to start pulling it out to even begin sorting it out because it was that jumbled. And yeah, and I think writing helps untangle that for me. 

Elizabeth 

Yeah, it allows you to have that space to make sense of what you're thinking and feeling in the moment. 

Sarah 

Yeah, and it's a safe space as well, because you ultimately decide what you share and what you don't. So, you know, there's no judgment there. There's no, you know, there's no eyes looking at it apart from yours unless you want to share that. And sometimes I share things that I think somebody might read and it resonate with, or it may make them feel less alone. But ultimately, I kind of choose what I put out there and what is just really a therapy. 

Elizabeth 

Definitely. And I think sometimes it can be difficult to find those safe spaces. So if we can find creative methods or safety within ourselves, I think that's really powerful. Because once you've got that inner safety, then you can make yourself feel safe and in pretty much, you know, every situation, obviously, with some exceptions. But That for me has helped me learning that I don't need to find safety in other spaces or in other people, but that I can cultivate that safety in myself, whether that's just feeling like, feeling within myself that whatever comes my way that I can face it, or whether it's through, like you said, like a creative outlet and being able to use a pen and paper and express with my words something that I'm trying to make sense of. And finding that within myself has been very empowering for me. 

Sarah 

Yeah, I think that's a big thing to be able to do, actually, isn't it? I think that's the end goal for everybody. If you can find safe space within yourself. I think I'm probably, I'm working on that. I think definitely depending on when you talk to me, depends on how well I'm doing with that, maybe. But yeah, I think you're right. You definitely need to be able to find that within somehow. And then it's probably much easier to kind of move forwards once you've found that. Because, it can be a, like we've said the word vulnerable lots today, but it does make you feel vulnerable. It does make you feel, it feels limiting sometimes in the fact, not just physically limiting or mentally limiting, but, It's like the grief you have for, and I feel bad using the word grief because I know people that have gone through really, really awful times losing children and things like that. And they are, so I use the word grief in a different way, but you do grieve for what you could have been, what I might have been able to do, what I might have been able to achieve, what career I may have had, what, What, yeah, what, all those things. And I, and it almost, I almost feel selfish saying that because it feels like I'm being a bit over the top, but it's, it's definitely, I definitely feel that sometimes. And that's hard to know how to process that and to, yeah, what to do with that really. That's a, that's a tricky one. But then I think, I have to think to myself, well, you know, my books are the way they are because of my illness, you know? So that's a positive thing that's come from that. So would I even have started writing if it wasn't for my illness? I don't know, because maybe my life would have been so busy that I would have not, maybe not have even thought about writing. It's tricky, isn't it? But yeah, I do. There is definitely the word grief is a word that is in my illness, but I cringe at using it sometimes because I feel like I feel shame for using that, which is wrong. 

Elizabeth 

Yeah, I think grief is a word I think about a lot as well. And actually, again, that you don't need to feel any shame for using the word grief. And it can take so many different forms. Like you said, you lost your mum. I lost my younger sister. And the grief I feel for her feels different to the grief I feel for the life I could have lived. But they are still valid griefs. And it is making space to say, I'm grieving the life I could have had, but whilst also being able to appreciate the beauty and the life you currently have. And it's really difficult. And I think with everything, it can be like, I have better and I have good days, bad days. It really fluctuates. But it is trying to make space for both. I can really wish things had maybe been different. And I can really grieve what I could have done in my life. But I can also love what I have done with it. But it is a difficult journey. And I don't know if the grieving ever really stops because it is something that we're living with and even if conditions stay the same, I still feel like I'm grieving new experiences as time goes on. 

Sarah 

Yeah, you're right. I think it's almost maybe again, I'm thinking visually like of two paths kind of running parallel with each other and kind of walking along one of the griefs kind of walking along next to you. So yeah, I just wonder if the kind of writer in me wonders if there's maybe a different word that I could come up with instead of grief, which is normally, I suppose, associated with the loss of someone. I don't know, somebody correct me, maybe it's the loss of something or someone. But yeah, I mean, I have gone through grief because I've lost lots of people in my life, but like you said, it is a different feeling, isn't it, to that? But that's the only other thing I can equate it to, because it's a permanent thing, I guess, as well. 

Elizabeth 

Yeah, I do think it makes, I know what you mean, because I think when you think about grief, you do think of loss of a person. But yeah, I do think it works. I suppose it's sort of, you're grieving something that you've lost, you're grieving a person that you've lost, you're grieving the life you would have had if that person had been in your life. And in a lot of ways, with chronic illness, you're grieving, maybe a loss of health or the life that you maybe could have had and those same sort of experiences. And I guess in a sense there are those crossovers, like I was saying, as the years go by, I sometimes feel, particularly when I have big birthdays come up, a mixture of feeling gratitude that I'm still here, but also sadness that so many of my years have been so significantly impacted by health. But I also get that kind of grief of when anniversaries come up of missing my sister. So there is that kind of crossover. So I do think, I do know what you mean about the word grief. I think it is more associated with loss of a person. But I think it, does make sense. And I wonder if there is a word, another word. But I do think it does make sense. I think it's very, it is still a powerful word. 

Sarah 

Yeah, very powerful word. And yeah, I just, as I said, I just sometimes, you know, when I might think about doing a post on social media, then I would just kind of The overthinker in me maybe plus the writer in me would make me think, well, would that make somebody who maybe has lost a child or somebody, I wouldn't want to upset them by using it in that way. If that, I don't know, if I'm making, I'm probably not making any sense at all. I would just like to come up with a word that kind of defines the fact of, you know, that I do understand the difference between Because you never know on social media who is looking at your post and how they're interpreting it. So I would hate for someone who had gone through a really terrible bereavement to be thinking, well, how dare she compare it? Because particularly if they haven't had chronic health, these things can get very misunderstood. And I would hate to do that someone with a word I've used. Again, with them back to words, aren't we, and the whole writing thing. So yeah, so I'm going to make it my mission to find a word that is equally as powerful as grief, but is maybe more defining so that I can use that. 

Elizabeth 

Yeah, when you find it, let me know. Maybe it could be one of the first new words. 

Sarah 

Yeah, exactly. 

Elizabeth 

Get you in the dictionary. 

Sarah 

That would be that would be great, wouldn't it? Getting a word in the dictionary. Yeah, I'm going to make it my mission. 

Elizabeth 

Thank you for sharing everything with me. You've actually covered so many good tips because I was going to ask you as we come to the end of the recording for like takeaways, whether there's any key tips that you would recommend to somebody who is looking to start writing. But I feel like when you were saying just get the words out on page and don't worry if it doesn't make sense, I think that's the biggest thing. Just get started and don't be afraid to not be perfect on the first go. 

Sarah 

100%. That's definitely my first tip would always be, you can't edit something that's not been written. So you just get words down. And if it becomes just word, you know, your words that mean nothing, that's fine. But it may it may develop into something more. And perhaps the more you write, the more you will write. I'm not sure. Or, you know, for some people, it may end up being something that you just keep personally for yourself. But it can definitely, be a therapy. For sure. 

Elizabeth 

Yeah, well, thank you again so much for coming on. It's been absolutely lovely chatting to you. 

Sarah 

Thank you. I really appreciate you inviting me on my first podcast, and it's been lovely to talk to you as well. 

Elizabeth 

This podcast episode is dedicated to the memory of Pat Raymond. To learn more about Sarah Colliver and her work, check out the links in the description. And as always, thanks for listening.

Please note this transcript is automatically generated and many contain errors.